Finding a way forward for St Mary in the Castle

Following Chris Connelley’s report on the latest moves to bring St Mary in the Castle back to life, Bea Rogers, who knows the place intimately having run it between 2009 and 2012 and subsequently participated in friends’ groups, offers her views on how this could be done and the obstacles to be surmounted. 

Is there a way forward for St Mary in the Castle? I think there could be, if it is done with great care.

I don’t think the first decision should be to find yet another organisation or business to take it on. Before that, we need a technical working group of those who have been involved in running it in the past, have access to relevant resources, or who have a detailed knowledge of how it works – technically, but also financially. (It suffers from what I call Regency engineering, ie where in the world does this drain go and why is it flooding in the bar but not the crypt this time, or vice versa?).

I suggest that the working group should start with one or more briefing sessions, so that all are on the same page. It could then put together a recommendation or some options for reopening the venue. Of course, if there is any grant money to be had this would need to be added to the options. I think a senior Council officer should be involved in this group, since any recommendations would need to be put to the full Council.

It is a difficult building, not impossible but hard to manage for a wide variety of reasons, not least the cost of gas and electricity if not carefully controlled. When Sonrise Church was running it, in about 2016-19, they had to give up half-way through their lease because after the exhausted managers left for two much-needed rest weeks, the person they left in charge turned on the full heating for the whole time. The result: a huge gas bill which they simply could not afford to pay.

It was the gas bill, too, which finally brought down the Friends of St Mary in the Castle (Fosmic), the original fundraisers for the building’s restoration and subsequent management. That was after the Council suddenly withdrew their small subsidy – supposedly a condition of the commercial operators taking on White Rock Theatre. But I digress…

Hastings Council has now made two very determined attempts to get a big operator “with deep pockets” to take St Mary’s off their hands, in 2018-19 and 2023. Both involved a nation-wide advertising campaign and multiple viewings. There was a lot of interest both times, but in the end no takers. The Council was so incredibly slow in starting and managing the first marketing process – despite my many appeals for a quick decision – that I was forced to turn down a slew of excellent booking inquiries, and finally had to tell the Council they were too late when they came to offer me another lease.

By default, the Council ran it for a few months – with me doing the bar – until the private Buckswood School got it, managing it briefly and unsuccessfully and then being replaced by the new charity. In the second marketing attempt, more recently, they again had lots of interest, and put together a shortlist, but in the end lost all the interested parties when they discovered what the problems were.

Any discussions about the building will have to involve Hastings Council officers, whether we like it or not. I was told by a leading councillor that his officers were so hostile to the building they wanted only to get rid of it, and he had therefore decided to come on his own. He added that it was his understanding (from said officers) that there was no disabled access, and no lift. He was very surprised when I showed him the excellent disabled access and toilets, and of course the lift.

Several councillors also think they know the building but have never had a full briefing on it, while many of them never darkened its doors at all. That always surprised me, since I had been a councillor in Islington where we had a building of similar problems, the Royal Agricultural Hall, which we visited several times with the officer team to understand the very limited options for its use. It is now the Business Design Centre.

No solution for reopening St Mary’s will be workable without the full briefing and co-operation of senior officers (especially the Development ones) as well as councillors. HBC owns the building and can decide who gets it, and on what terms. The only officers who know the building are in the Estates Department, and they sometimes had to ask me question about its operation. While I was there I was sending detailed monthly reports, but I doubt if this has continued consistently with the different operators and lease provisions involved.

There has been talk that it would take £2m to bring St Mary back into operation. I seriously question this – not that such an amount of money would not be useful, but first it must be understood which jobs are the most important to keep it functioning. When I visited as part of the last marketing exercise, the building looked pretty much its old self (literally), meaning that it could probably be reopened tomorrow. The big exception was the Council’s insistence on stripping out the café, against the wishes of its operator, resulting in a scene of pure dereliction at street level.

Basic maintenance is continuing, however; indeed there was an electrician there when I last visited. It costs the Council thousands to keep it closed, what with sky-high buildings insurance when it is unoccupied, security visits whenever there is a false fire alarm, and maintenance of electrics and lift as a condition of the insurance.

This brings me to the vexed question of heating. Major bookings suddenly dried up a couple of years ago when people realised that it was just too cold. The charity which was the last to operate the building had raised £40,000 through a fundraiser for new boilers (there are four). This money was probably used to try and keep the building running, although I think it should have been spent on the boilers.

I do believe that this building can reopen, but there is a lot more work needed before it can be done sustainably. There are problematic licences for events and alcohol, for example. The Council would need to guarantee a minimum budget for it which is no less than for keeping the building closed. There are questions about security and financial control which I suggest have to be discussed, together with additional revenue streams to supplement income from events. Modest changes in the car park opposite would help events promoters and artistes, as well as audiences.

There needs to be discussion about where to place those major events for which the Council is responsible. Because of its Grade 2* listing (and now as an Asset of Community Value), St Mary’s cannot be used for anything except events, but that has included a wonderful array in the past, from a flower show to NHS health day, fashion shows, Jack in the Green dances, a TV election debate, exercise classes, and of course music and concerts of all kinds, from opera to choirs and orchestras, folk music to jazz and live bands.

They included the first Composers Festival (now at the De La Warr Pavilion, which is where others have also gone). With its central floor space and adjustable stage St Mary’s is far more versatile than it appears. It has its advantages and disadvantages, and it’s always a good idea for new operators to know exactly what they are dealing with. A detailed handover from the previous operator would be a good start – this has never happened.

Finally, I do not think St Mary’s should be considered on its own as a venue. It has always competed for large events with White Rock Theatre, often at a great disadvantage because White Rock was heavily subsidised for a number of years until very recently. The Council’s approach of subsidising the arts, I always thought, should switch from focusing on particular buildings to supporting event organisers, so that they would have a free choice of where best to make their bookings.

Not that there are any subsidies in the current climate, but there are capital funds that could be applied.

At one of the last Jazz Breakfasts run by St Mary in the Castle Friends (Smic-F, made up of supporters who got together after Fosmic had to disband), one of the audience was the then Mayor of Eastbourne. He was flabbergasted. If they had this in Eastbourne, he told us, they would make absolutely sure it succeeded as the jewel in their crown.

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